geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry guys the N28 has an early Zen G23 weighs 15lb sans the pilot and fuel. Happy landings,Doc. On power if enough is good, more is better, and too much should be seriously considered.

destrat

Mode One:

Check out my Pfalz D-IIIa from around page 5 or 6 in the thread. the name is "destrat", Dan Schmidt, I built this off of Polapink's prints blown up albeit from AZM. I did make some adjustments to the airfoil and incidence's. I have since found a blueprint/copying business that will make you any size copy one would want, I think that is the route to go! Presently building a 1/4 scale Pfalz D-XII.

tommyp

My Feedback: (1)

Hi guys,
Nice to see the subject of the Pfalz getting attention once again. Just for the record, I've never seen the AZM drawings. Have they been redrawn with new wood dimensions for the different scales, or are they just the 1/5 plans blown up to 1/4 scale and reduced to 1/6 scale? Just curious.

My first Pfalz (a D.IIIa) was designed and built to 1/5 scale using the Wylam drawings as a basis, and photos of the nose profiles of full-scale war-time originals to try to improve the outline a bit. When I built my 1/4-scale version (also a D.IIIa) I enlarged my 1/5 scale plans at a local print shop, and switched to a scale airfoil with deep undercamber. It flies perfectly fine with the scale undercamber, and I wish I had built my 1/5 scale version with the scale airfoil too.

If anyone happens to be building a scale model that is supposed to have undercamber with a flat-bottom, or semi-symmetrical airfoil, I'd suggest shaping the wingtip to reflect the undercamber. This helps to give the illusion of having undercamber without actually having it. It's a neat little trick...it's easy to do, and it is visually effective.

Happy Holidays!
Tom

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Tom, I just looked back at what I've posted and it looks like I misspelled your name twice now, many apologies. I used the undercambered tip with a flat bottomed airfoil trick on a small (1/8) scale Tabloid on floats (Schneider) a few years ago and it's surprising how it fools the eye. Maybe I'll consider the scale airfoil since it flew well for you, how's the leading edge radius? This will be the first time I've really prepared properly a scale project for building. The Nieuport was framed before I bought the datafile, I started tearing things apart to make them more scale, I dont reccomend doing it that way but it worked out ok in the end and except for being a real slow roller it flies great. Any one building one hear this, increase the ammount of up aileron available from the kit, and make the stab incidence 0 to the lower wing, use a meter regardless of what it says on the first page if the instructions, it will remain neutral to throttle changes instead of climbing like a homesick angel at full throttle, the upper wing is about 1/2 pos. Back to the Pfalz, as I said in a previous post I'm going to order the AZM drawings in about 1/6 and use them and the Wylam drawings to generate my own plans. Drawing a good set of working drawings is a lot of work but also very satisfying. Idesigned a seaplane and redrew an 80 inch high wing cabin plane (sortof a Fairchild 24 looking thing) to incorporate some changes that I wanted. I doubt anyone but me could have built the seaplane (Idid) from the drawings but the Fauxchild could have been built by anyone. So as you're working on them you have to keep in mind " will the average builder understand what is supposed to be done from this work?" If you dont plan to make them available to anyone else then as long as you know how things are to be done, it's OK. If you're going to make them for distribution they need to be clear on all aspects of construction. Even if you're only say going to provide them to some friends, otherwise you'll be on the phone and in thier shops explaining "see this is how that is supposed to be done." I've got plans I bought from RCM years ago that were so technical and covered up with lines and dashes and confusing aspects that they lie in the plan hoard never to see the light of day again. I gotta get ready for work Ugh. Happy landings, Doc. On power, if enough is good, more is better, and too much should be seriously considered.

destrat

tommyp:

The drawings of your Pfalz D-IIIa that AZM offers in 1/4 scale are the ones that I built my D-IIIa from. He just enlarges them, no wood dimensional changes or anything like that. That is what makes scratch building so interesting, you have the option to change/re-design whatever seems necessary.

Merry Christmas....

Dan

Mode One

At $64.00 for their 1/4 scale plans, I can't imagine they'd sell a lot of them! Of course everything they sell, seems high to me. Hopefully they make up for what they charge, with super customer relations!

tommyp

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Geezer,
No need to apologize about the name spelling...I knew who you were talking about!
As for details on plans, I'll be the first to admit that the plans I draw leave a lot to the imagination. They show basic construction, but you have to work out the details yourself. When I build a model I usually only draw the most basic outline shapes, rib locations and things like that, then start building. For the Pfalz, I went back after mine was flying and inked the plans for the 1/5 scale version, adding a few building details, but there are still things you have to figure out for yourself. They were drawn back in the 80s or early 90s as I remember, and I haven't really drawn plans for others to build from since that period.

Dan - Thanks for filling me in about the 1/4-scale plans. I hope people buying them realize that the wood sizes called out on the drawings won't match what they are building.

Mode one - I would hope so.

Best regards,
Tom

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Oh boy a package from air age was lying on the dining room table when I got home from work a little while ago. Since it's the time of year that it is I told the wife if she wanted she could put some wrapping paper on it and put it under the tree that we didnt erect this year because of young cats. But just to be sure I was going to take a quick peek at them- OV10 Bronco - nice looking plane, way wrong war, too many engines and the fabric covering looks awfully tight, almost like metal, can't seem to make out any rib detail, and the landing gear configuration??? very strange. I'm gonna have a martini. Happy landings, Doc. On power, if enough is good, more is better, and too much should at least be seriously considered.

Sethhunter

Nothing like coming home to a really BIG BOX!! Have fun - keep us posted.

Well after bouncing the next project around in my head between the Chance Vought VE9, DH4, and Pfalz DrI - I've decided: None of the above! I've started laying out plans for a Pfalz DXV! One of the key objectives was making a model simpler to transport and set-up, a little unusual, and nice nose-tail moments. The DRI was entriguing but I wasn't sure I could build a good flying example. On pure aesthetics, the narrow chord on the lower wings, close wing spacing, and funcky interplane struts just didn't strike me quite right. The DXII is a great airplane but alas, I know a few DXII projects are underway and I always like doing something different. The DXV, inspired by the Fokker DVII, seems like a pretty well thought out machine. Has anyone seen one modeled? I'm particularly intrigued by the floating lower wing. I thought I would continue this thread unless anyone thinks a new thread would be better.

Hope everyone is having a GREAT holiday.

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

I think this an appropriate place for any Pfalz projects, anyone else care to chime in. That way I dont have to be jumping all over the place to see what y'all are up to. tommyp, I started building as soon as I was allowed to have a tube of glue, then I discovered cars and girls and airplanes took a back seat for a while. In the late 60s I got into towline gliders with a guy in central Calif. I was stationed there while in the A.F. I picked up the Feb 68 issue of RCM and was hooked, by the late 70s it was back to fast cars, headers and Holleys and cams, oh my. 88 brought me back to R.C. and I'm in far enough now that I can't imagine a rehab program that could break the habit. There are eleven scratch built airplanes in the shop that I can see (4 of em big birds) and if there is something on your drawings I can't figure out or modify so I do I hope you'll allow me to e-mail you for an explanation. I'm not trying to be sassy or uppity and sure as Gordon Banks likes pizza I don't know it all, but as we like to say here in Texas, "it aint my first rodeo". My little blurb on power is only one of the rules I live by in this hobby, one other is that "there is no such thing as an insignificant savings in weight". I have a balsa bin holding more and better wood than the hobby shops I do buisness in. Every sheet is weighed and stacked, light on top, heavy on bottom when I receive an order, as I build, the pieces for the rear come off the top, the pieces for the front come off the bottom, ballast is the enemy, useless weight is bad juju. This is really fun but I need to go paint the cam covers for the dummy Hisso that's going into my SE 5a. Happy landings, Doc. Onpower, if enough is good, more is better, and too much should at least be seriously considered.

Mode One

I tried to talk the other guy who's building a DXII into posting it here, as this would be a logical place for all things Pfalz, in my opinion! Dai Phan/FokkerAce's Spievak Pfalz DIIIa build could of fit here, too!

Geezer, every once in a while we are all graced by Alan Spievak's presence here! Alan built a DIIIa from his own plans, that was a feature build in a 1971 Flying Models Magazine. This was back when .60 sized models were considered huge! I think we're all in awe of what Alan has put in motion.

You are amongst Pfalz pfiles here. If you don't get WW1 Aeroplane, you should consider. In the issue before this last, there was a run down on Pfalz models sorta starting with Cole Palin's. Alan Spievak's is next, then; Tom Polapink, Dan Schmidt and Seth Hunter have all built wonderful 1/4th scale models of Pfalz aeroplanes which are shown in this neat essay on Pfalz models. Our own TommyP is one of the writers on modeling for this wonderful magazine. Thanks for your hard work Tom!

Someday before I get too feeble, I will build one, also.

FokkerAce

I'm open to this suggestion, but this thread is mostly Pfalz prototype stuff, while the other two threads are mostly build threads.

Are we Pfalz pfiles , or apficionados [pfalzaholics, most probably [X(]]

Mode One.....no time like the present!

FA[8D]

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Pfalzaholic....Pfalzophile, FA, I think you may have just coined a couple of signipficant terms there, happy landings, Doc. Would someone tell me how to put my power theory so it pops up with each post so I can quit worrying about forgetting it. On power, if enough is good, more is better, and too much should be seriously considered

skylarkmk1

Geezer,

Add it to your signature. Click on your name to the left, go to the Post Stats and Tools on the right side of your profile, click on Edit Forum Profile, scroll down to Signature and add your signature and Power Statement. Easy.

Mode One

Mode One.....no time like the present!

True enough! However, my rules are "I can only start, after I've finished"! The Pfalz isn't this one. It isn't the next one and may not even be the one after that; but, I certainly hope it won't be the last!

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

I'm up to post 356 on page 15 somewhere, each new picture of Seth's airplane continues to astound and amaze me. He and Alan were talking about laminating for wingtips etc. and one of Alans tricks was to use baking soda as an accelerant for CA. Some times you'd rather not use CA but you're in a hurry (aren't we always?) to get something put together. Size matters here. Depending on what the item is or its shape go ahead and glue your soaked lams with alphatic, use tape to hold them to your form, no metal clamps, pop it in the microwave and zap it in short bursts of 15 or 20 seconds. Check it between bursts as wood really heats up fast in the mickeywave. I cant remember who told me how to do this. I made the laminated outlines for the tail parts of my Nieuport this way and had them framed up a couple of hours after laying them up on the forms, also did the wing tips for the Tabloid (1/8 scale) this way. Experiment. Hot alphatic has a less than wonderful odor so the little woman may box your ears. I ordered Alans plans from Carstens today, e-mailed Air Age to ask what they wanted me to do with the OV10 Bronco drawiings and would they please pull...... the correct drawings next time. I haven't ordered Tommyp's from Jamie yet but will so I can toss em all in a pot and cook up the next Pfalz design. Every one have a safe and joy filled holiday. Happy landings, Doc, On power, if enough is good, more is better, and too much should be seriously considered.

Sethhunter

I'm sure some of you have seen this but I just happened apon it researching the DXV. Pfalz Aircraft of WWI by Herris suggests more were built... "some production aircraft reached supply depots before the war ended"... but Herr Holtzem disagrees. Not much info available on that particular airplane (enough in Herris' book - always nice to have more[sm=confused.gif]. Anyone have any other sources?

http://www.earlyaviators.com/eholtze5.htm

MAX HOLTZEM CORRESPONDENCE WITH PETER GROSS

Letter #4

Mr. Peter W. Gross Jan. 22nd, 1964
Pretty Brook Road
Princeton, N.J.

My Dear Mr. Gross:
Now it's about time that I write since you send me a variety of things including your last letter of Jan. 13th, with the picture of the Pfalz experimental D.D. of 1916. And don't let us call it any longer D-IV! I had never heard called it that and remember the Pfalz D-III was not yet existing when I flew this X-D.D. in the summer of 1916.
Before I answer your question in your letter #4 of Dec. 14th I must thank you for the little blue-book of the "Alte A. Adler". It gives me a lot of pleasure - so many people I knew. I may become a member of this illustrious Society, as you may see by reading the enclosed copies. I went busy; now I have to wait patiently...
Ernst Eversbusch chief designer in early summer 1916/designed the Pfalz Dr. powered by Siemens-Halske Sh-III, 160 H.P. 11 cyl., 1300 rpm geared to 1/2 prop speed. The a.c. had airfoil on horiz.stabilizer INVERTED (for recovering from inverted flight). Production of Drs. (only 10) came late in 1917.
D XI was prototype DD, 2 struter 160 HP Mercedes.
D XI went into production with BMW
DXV lower wing below fuselage,BMW, No production only 2 ships were made. One given to Udet, I was there in Speyer a few days after the armistice, on my way to Munich with my Fok.D-VIII, and not going to Strasburg to hand it over to the Allies. That very Pfalz D-XV (Udet's Pfalz) I flew in Argentina doing stunt exhibition. Mohrhauer did NOT fly this Pfalz. Read the newspaper clippings I send you on this. I have ample proof for what I state here; I would like to see the article which he had published in Illustrierte Flugwelt. It surely is annuiing me when this truth is so misrepresented; also that I was not recognized as having been a part - as it wa said in testimony by the brothers Alfred and Ernst Eversbuch, of which you have copies - in your article about the Pfalz Flugzwerks.
Back to your letter of Dec. 14. Yes I was in Sindelfingen a short time after the war but that was before Herr Klemm und Frh. von Thana. I left Argentina in Oct. 1919. I have flown a light cantilever-wing Klemm at Teterboro when I was with Fokker.
I'm sending your 6 fotos back by same mail. Please make a copy of my Pfalz demostrator EII, and X-DD,Benz (my pictures) for me.
With my best greetings and thanks.

Max Holtzem

Letter from Edgar B. Smith's estate collection,
submitted by his son, Donald M. Smith, holder of estate.

Mode One

Seth, Sounds like your hard into research on the DXV! Isn't it wonderful that some information such as Herr Holtzum's letter still exists! My guess is this will be both a fun and exasperating research job to undertake. Until the Herris Book came out I had no idea Pfalz models went beyond the DXII. Another great example of the German aircraft designers ability to design aircraft with very pleasing lines is the Roland D.VIb! This aeroplane has the lower wing set much lower then normal and attached to a short keel below the fuselage. There must have been some favorable reason the designers went after this idea, which is similar to your Pfalz DXV lower wing. Maybe this feature allowed the upper wing to be set lower, providing a better forward and upward view of the sky for the pilot. The Roland D.VIb's fuselage was built in boat "Klinker" fashion. Certainly there have been far fewer Roland D.VIb models built then Pfalz models. However your DXV may really be a first. Plus, you could keep this Pfalz thread going by staying with the Pfalz designs.

Look forward to your keeping us posted on both the build and research!!

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

It was like Christmas today. When I got home several packages were waiting for me. I got the Herris book on Pfalz aircraft of WWI, My datafiles arrived. One on the DIII and the one on the DIIIa, I also have the Osprey book, Pfalz Scout aces.
Also there was a box from Mick Reeves with 1/3 scale Vickers guns for the 1/3 Nieuport and a 1/4 scale Le Rhone for the 1/4 Nieuport. He also sent me a small sample tin of what he says is politically correct PC10, I didn't realise there was an ongoing debate on the correct color for PC 10 but after reading a couple of these threads it seems that it may be a tough color to duplicate properly. The tin he sent is Flair Spectrum paint and I have located a source for it here in the states. I haven't received any of the drawings I ordered yet but did get the drawings thet Seth sent me. I was able to download and open them OK, thanks lots. Seth that DXV is a really unusual aircraft and if you go with it I'm sure it will be a first. Happy landings,Doc

geezeraviation

My Feedback: (3)

Well things have been quiet here for nearly a month. Yesterday I FINALLY recieved the Alan Spievack plans I ordered from Carstens about a millenia ago. During the wait I've been to Kinkos and blown up the Wylam drawings that came a while back and also enlarged the drawings that Seth sent me. As I originally stated my intention was to build a 1/4 scale model with scale outlines a detailed cockpit and enough surface detail to suit me. After looking at all these drawings it seems that the Spievack drawings will be the basis for my DIII. The construction is fairly conventional and so far as I've checked the dimensions are good. I'll make whatever changes necessary to make the cockpit look as it should as far as longerons passing through the area. As per Tommyp I will use the scale airfoil (or something that looks about right) for the wings. The incidence figures on Alan's drawings make me wonder if his airplane climbed at higher power settings and I'll be trying to reach Seth to see how he set his up and how did it react to power changes. I will try to replicate the look Seth achieved with his strut and flying wire fixtures without some of the work (a lazy man is responsible for most of the labor saving devices we find today, that's me) he had to do to accomplish it. I have a 50cc engine in mind and will have it on hand before the first cut is made, rear carb, side exhaust. I'm so fortunate to have all the work that's been done on earlier models to build upon and to help guide me with my project. The list of contributors and references that I will include on my drawings is going to include a lot of familiar names. Thank you all, for all that's come before. Happy landinge, Doc

Erich_Prinz

Looking forward to seeing another great work on the thread!

Erich

FokkerAce

{Alan, the plan is great, please don't be offended by any comments , several of us are building this vintage craft and need to share trials, tribulations[:@], successes and solutions}{I have loved this plane since I saw it at Rhinebeck back when it was new...I was 11}

First 'oopsies' I've found using the Carsten plans/article are that:

0) the crutch...a false fuse inside of the formers....you're just 'supposed to know how to do this. After much head scratching, caffinateing of long dormant brain cells, and re-reading Alan's article four times, ....build this thing like a ladder, flat on the board, with the center pieces of the formers [don't forget the holes for the control systems] as internal formers! Will post this this weekend!

1) the stabilizer length [front to back] on plan and side views are not the same.....pick one and change the other.

1a) the airfoil to the stab seems excessive....think this thru, and reduce the saddle parts accordingly. working on comparing these to scale drawings.

2) some of the fuselage stringers could use some 'relofting' ....."F" seems to be the worst
....10 & 2 o'clock need 1/8th -ish higher on the sides, others.

3) there's no dimentions for the vertical fin structure.

4) there is no specific plans for getting the cabanes and landing gear mounted, as these really should be thought out BEFORE the fuselage is framed. There is a scrap view, but there is no dimentions on the former "B" and "D" as to where they should go.

Anyone got a good source for J-Bolts?
Motor Choices??? I'm thinking RCV 90

More later.
FA[8D]

FokkerAce

oh, yeah.....anyone know the source of the 'Warpaint drawings of the Pfalz D.III????

FA[8D]

Sethhunter

Great to see more Pfalz'en coming to life!

Doc - can't help too much with trim since I haven't flown my DIIIa since I changed CG. My original set up was:
Airfoils: Gottingen 381 (see attached scan): look pretty and have nice characteristics. A bit thin. Used carbon to reinforce spars.
Incidence: 2 degrees top and bottom.
Engine: 2 degrees down and right
Stab: 0 degrees, inverted "flat-top" airfoil.
CG: 33%.
Plane climbed agreesively on full throttle. Dialed in some down. Held altitude nicely, Directionally "washy" probably due to aft CG. At low throttle nose dipped slighly and really grooved around the pattern in a cruise decend to a landing. I've moved the CG forward to around 27%; will see how she goes when the weather gets warm.

I've attached CAD outlines for my DXV. Time to start making it into model plans. Since the nose is pretty long, I'm thinking main access to inside/radio will be through engine cowl; That will give me a 14" hatch back to the center of the "W" strut. Like the Fokker DVII, wing is thick enough to make plug in panels, probably with tubes. Using modified Gott 303 airfoil. Just some early thoughts.

Mode One

Seth, I've communicated with Dan Schmidt who built a 1/4th scale DIIIa and contributed here just above. Dan's airplane was also talked about with yours in a recent WW1 Aeroplanes Magazine. Sadly his DIIIa crashed and is no longer with us. However, he is building a DXII now. Maybe you should hook up with Dan, the DXII and DXV fuselages seem very similar. His handle here here is destrat, you can PM him.