arspievack

Seth
The closest I can come I would bet you have come to as well, but I'll mention it just in case. "Plafz Scout Aces of WWI" VanWyngarten page 85 ( and less well on page 87)on a D-12!!!
I bet with a maginifier you can scan it and get a good idea. ( I bet a computer nerd could reconstruct it with a little pixel crunching) I think the Smithsonian has a D-12 and might have data on those placards.
I used to use them extensively when I was working up a model and had a good friend there ( now gone West) who would let me into the stacks where they have a s...load of uncateloged material. We used to trade info , Mine for theirs and visa versa.

I'll scan my other sources as well.
alan

abufletcher

I believe one of these rectangles is rigging instructions in a celluloid pocket. This appears to have been standard practice on the German side during WWI. I've always wondered just what was written on them. It seem probably that someone over on the Aerodrome forum has this information.

The other rectangle is almost certainly the aircraft identification tag. Again, I'm not aware of details.

abufletcher

Seth,

The best photo I can find is on p. 33 of the Herris Pfalz Aircraft of WWI book. In this photo you can clearly see the two rectangles under the stencil. The forwardmost, which appears to be centered under the stencil, is very light colored and I believe this is the rigging instructions packet. It is roughly 5:4 in terms of length to height ratio. No details are visible.

The second long thin tag looks clearly to be the metal factory aircraft identification tag. It's about 4:1 or 5:1 in shape and it's upper edge appears to be on the rigging datum line. BTW, the top edge of the rigging packet appears to be alligned with the bottom edge of the factory tag. My best guess would be that this metal tag is done in black with white/silver lettering. There's not enough detail in the photo to see individual words but this tag is clearly divided by a thin white line down the middle (horizontally) some information written above it and below it.

If I had to fake it, I'd have a look at the more well-known Fokker tags, look to see what information was listed and try to fit this into the space on the Pfalz tag. Almost certainly there were nuimbers stamped into this metal tag.

BTW, on the aircraft you're modeling was the stenciled information done on two lines (centered) or as three lines (right justified)? The placement of the "rectangles" looks to be fixed in either case.

Dai Phan

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Hi all,

A new WW1 aviation movies will come out that will depict heavy air to air action called "Fly Boys". Unfortunatetly, it is full of computer generated sequences that are very very obvious but I really would like to see how well they portray the planes. Maybe a Pfalz will be in there too. DP

arspievack

Most computer generated movies ( including the trailers I've seen on this one) are comic book level of accuracy and photgraphic reality.
For we real scale nuts my guess is a lot of fun but no help
ars

abufletcher

The scene in the trailers with about a hundred near identical red triplanes swarming out like bees after a balloon-busting run told me all I need to know about accuracy. But I still want to go see it -- and am totally bummed out about the fact that it's coming out in the US three days after I leave for Japan.

Highflyer2

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Check out the scene where the ground crew flips the prop to start the engine... The engine stays put and doesn't rotate. I guess these young computer geeks don't know the difference between rotary and radial.

Dai Phan

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I am still amazed of how movies makers still pump millions into digital sequences that are laughable at best. Using R/C planes makes much more sense to me. You don't even need computer power to put out convincing effects. Have you ever seen Tora Tora Tora where an exploding P-40 careening off the runway and hit packed planes? Now, that's quality special effects that they are 30+ years old!!! DP

abufletcher

I must admit I appreciate the freedom of perspective and "camera movement" that digital sequences offer. It's great to be able to imagine yourself right there in the thick of battle looking back over your shoulder at a Fokker coming up to within 10 yards of your tail. RC models taking off and landing (and flying by or banking) can look pretty realistic but RC dogfights are bound to disappoint.

BTW, thinking of movies and "stock footage" I was stunned when watching Midway a while ago to actually see footage from Tora Tora Tora spliced in there -- as well as footage from a couple Japanese made WWII war movies I had just watched in Japanese! In the commentary on the Midway DVD they mentioned that the studio had acquired the rights to a number of Japanese films. Of course there was a lot of actual stock war footage -- as well as some interesting "bait and switch" bits. In the scene where Charlton Heston's plane crashes and burns on the deck of the carrier, a little judicious use of the freeze-frame button reveals that the crash footage is actually of a Grumman F9F Panther!

Dai Phan

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Hi all,

If Flyboys release is not enough, next year a movie called "The Red Baron" will be in theater too! I found it through this link.... Scroll down to External Links DP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Baron

Sethhunter

Thanks everyone for the pointers on the plaques. The small one looks similar the Albatros plaque at the Smithsonian, which was attached in 5 locations (I don't know where they all were). Abufletcher to answer your question, the Dempsey illustration of Hohn's DIIIa shows two lines of weight limits, but all Dempsey's illustrations of DIIIa's are the same in that regard. I don't think I have a photo of the port side of Hohn's to confirm so I figure I'll peruse all the pictures and see what's most common. Has anyone used a stencil burning service to make lettering stencils? Or tried to cut one out of frisket?

BobH

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I used Getstencils.com to have the lettering made for my SE5a. Worked exceptionaly well and Gary now has or will have in the very near future the abilitly to make dry transfers.
Give him a try at
http://www.getstencils.com/

Reg Hinnant

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Seth,
One way I have made plaques is to take the picture like your attachment in the above post and scan it down to the correct size. After printing it on regular paper you can use a copier to print it on overhead transparency film. Then you can cut out the plaque from the film & use double sided tape to glue it to a brass/steel shim or thin white plastic to make a finished plaque to be put in place. With a little thought on materials and care when making, they can turn out very good.

VNulk

One way I have made plaques is to copy or print (using laser print device) on dark-colored heavy folder stock. Cut out the printed image and lightly treat the entire surface with thin CA. The CA colors the card stock to look like weathered bronze or brass and the printed laser image becomes slightly raised.

Reg Hinnant

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That sounds cool! Gotta try that.

abufletcher

Seth, you might want to try contacting the team at the new Pfalz Flugzeugwerke who recently completed a non-flying full-scale replica. I believe there are some photos of this replica somewhere earlier in this thread. If not, let me know and I'll search through my email contacts.

Sethhunter

All excellent ideas - This will be fun. I have a good vector graphics program called XaraX. I scanned the Albatros plaque into it and made a quick conversion of the text. Now the tricky part!

abufletcher

Seth, that looks good. But it doesn't have the white line down the middle that is obvious in the photo. Do you have the Herris book? I could scan in that portion of the photo and your could creatively add in whatever info you can't read.

Sethhunter

Good catch Abufletcher, thanks. I got tunnel vision from the albatros placard. Yes, I'm looking now at Fritz' DIII on p45 in Herris' book and see the white line. However, there also appears to be a third stamped field in the upper half that the albatros placard doesn't have. I'm really guessing now. Could it designate Rolland v. Pfalz v. other designs the Pfalz factory built? I can't make out any of the text so the following is purely uneducated guesswork! Any thoughts?

abufletcher

Just out of curiousity how large with this tag be on your model?

Sethhunter

Small enough that it doesn't matter a whole lot! It will be barely legible. Size is about 1-1/2" by 1/2". The rigging placard will be unlegible.

Mode One

Seth, There was someone a while back, whom asked what you where going to power your Pfalz with. How many pages back was this? Have you made arrangements to put an engine in this plane, or is it going to be a display model only?

From my perspective, I think it's a wonderful project and am greatful you are making your progress visible and available to all, Thanks!!

arspievack

Mode,
I was the one who asked him and he said he hadn't decided yet. I was suprised because I always decide that at the outset and build to be sure it fits, can be hiddened, cooled well etc.
But Seth knows what he's doing and I can't wait to see it fiished. It's a work of art. He may not be saying yet but he's got it worked out in his head.
alan

Sethhunter

Thanks for the confidence but I can't say I have it all worked out. Truth is, I've never built a model quite this heavy and don't have gas experience. I deferred the decision because I originally designed the plane about 8 years ago and figured there would be more choices when I got around to building it. For better or worse. An advantage to molding the fuselage is the nose is open inside. My "plan" is to install more structure, tied into the stringers and bulkhead, when I pick an engine. If there was a bigger RCV rotating sleeve engine, I would seriously consider it for the low RPM and easy fit, but I expect to be around 20 lbs and don't think a 120 glow is enough (although an OS120AX pulls my 9lb Quest along quite nicely!). I've been looking at specs for Roto, ZDZ, RCS and Evolution engines in the 40cc range, and the Saito 220. I think the most likely candidate is an upright ZDZ 40RE, mainly because of the rear exhaust, although I'm still trying to figure out if a ROTO 35VI side exhause is low enough to clear the bottom of the cowl inside. Either of these engines will fit if I remove the lower half of the Merc front cylinder. Additional hollowing of the fake engine will probably be necessary for the spark plug wire. The fit gets easier with a ROTO 25, but it "feels" a bit undersize on displacement. I base this on the recommended BUSA engines and wingloadings of their various kits. Wing loading on my plane will be in the 20-25 oz/sqft range. My flight expectation is simple scale performance (no hovering or knife-edge loops!).

I have about a square inch (total) of inlet area from the side scoops that I can duct right to the cylinder. I could grab more by adding a "pop-down" scoop under the engine to bring more in. Or cheat alittle on the spinner diameter (say 1/6 smaller radius than the nose ring) and create openings in the nose ring to scavange air coming off the spinner. ITs such a big diameter spinner, it probably wouldn't be too noticable. I'd rather not invert the engine as much of it will be visible underneath.

Do you guys have any suggestions or comments on the engine choice - especially, do you think 40cc is way overkill?

BobH

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I have a Laser 300 V twin for the Proctor Albatross. It's a 50cc engine but who cares? I can fly throttled back. The Albi will most likely? weigh more than your plane.. but maybe not much more. I would think a Laser 200 V twin would fly a 20 lb plane just fine. Im flying my SE5a with an OS 120 pumper and it almost 17 lbs.