abufletcher

OK. I'd like this thread to become a kind of open resource for anyone interested in building (or anyone who has already built) a Pfalz DIII(a). Who knows, maybe it will eventually evolve into a build-along thread!

After considering a number of (mostly German) WWI aircraft as possible next (scratch-built) scale projects, I've narrowed it down to the Pfalz DIII(a) in the fighter category and either the LVG VI or Albatros C1 in the two-seater class. There are several reasons that I have settled on the Pfalz DIII. First, I have just always had an irrational preference for the German vs. Allied aircraft (I suppose this has something to do with my undergraduate degree in German - or vice versa). Second, I wanted an aircraft with detailed documentation of the internal structures of the fuse and wings. Oh, how I wish the folks at Replicraft would start working of some plans for German aircraft. Anyway, Volume I of MAN's Scale Aircraft Drawings provides 4 pages of detailed technical drawings by Wylam and although there are inevitably several inaccuracies these seem like a good place to start. Third, while the MAN book also provides many other outstanding Wylam drawings, for example the DrI, DVII, and Albatros D series, I wanted something a little out of the ordinary. Fourth, I was looking for something that would build a bit differently from my last project, the EIII. The Halberstadt is just a bit too déjÃ* vu plus a number of others here already have the modeling “rightsâ€� sewn up on that aircraft. : ) Finally, how could anyone who ever watched the Blue Max not want to model the Pfalz!

Anyway, if you have any resources (photos, drawings, web sites, etc.) on the Pfalz DIII please do share them here. At this point I have the Wylam drawings and the DIIIa datafile (No. 21). Can anyone who has the DIII datafile (No. 7) comment if it is equally worth having? In the discussion on the following web site I also saw reference to a set of plans via WWI Aero that are supposed to be more accurate than the Wylam plans. Can anyone comment on these? Finally, also from the following discussion, I was directed to a site with lots and lots of construction detail drawings that appeared in the German magazine Flight.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=16869

http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/pho...t=1&AlbumID=74

abufletcher

Anyone have this book or know if it's any good?

abufletcher

Just ordered myself a used copy of this book through Amazon.com for $25. There was another copy being sold (by a private book dealer) for $190. Who knows, maybe it was signed by Richthofen himself (postumously). Anyway, I guess I'll just treat this thread as my personal Pfalz blog until someone else decides to chime in.

Tmoth4

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Doesn't Tom Polopink compete with a 1/4 scale Pfalz at Top Gun?

Check here. I'm starting to build a Hannover 2-seater from 5-views: http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...?TID=2884&PN=1

I would love to see your Pfalz build if you post it.

Jim

abufletcher

Jim. your Hannover looks like a super project (and super big)! It's impressive to see the fuse spring up so quickly from the plans. Since I'm overseas at the moment with no access to serious tools or a local hobby shop I'm hesitant to start building. So so far I've just been in research mode. Still, I feel I can lay a lot of the ground work so the building eventually goes faster. I might be tempted to post a formal build-along on the rcscalebuilder site - if I weren't so darned intimidated by all you experts over there!

I'd like to try to scale construction ("modeling for God") as much as possible just for my own edification. That's why I wanted to start with a set of technical drawings that provide internal structures as well.

Tmoth4

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Don't be intimidated! There's a lot of us there that started out with so-so skills and learned a lot from that site. There are some who started threads of their first scale projects too. I think guys would be very interested in your build.

The Windsock Datafile on the Hannover has some technical drawings in it from the factory parts manual which are very interesting, and have detailed cutaways too. They are a big help.

Jim

MajorTomski

abufletcher,

Man I wish I had part of your zeal to build, and build well I might add. As to the Phalz.

Cleveland does a very nice set of plans, for a rubber ship but they do deliver them in pretty precise 1/4 Scale. I think FM had a 1/6 airplane back in the late 70's, the draw back on this set of plans is that the designer cheated and used semi-symetrical airfoils, Looks horrible to the true believers in WW-I topics. And as said above both the D-III and -IIIa are now available in the Datafiles.

MajorTomski

And now that I'm at my library Model airplane news "scale Aircraft Drawings" Vol 1 has the Wylam drawings.

Trev

Don,
Must say I'm really looking forward to when you start on this project! Try and see to it that you get back to the states fast
Considering the monoque fuz construction, the pfalz seems like a pretty challenging project.
This (rather intimidating) aspect of construction is one reason I've opted to 'train' my skills first on more straitforward 'box' airframes, e.g. nieuports or halberstadts.
Though I can relate to the appeal of the clean lines with these monoque types (been eyeing the Siemens Schuckert D.IV for a while but don't have the guts to tackle it!).

For info, have you had a look at "Jane's Fighters of WWI"?
If I'm not mistaken it features several detailed drawings and 3-views of the pfalz D.III (a). Not sure if this is anything that could complement the material you have already.
I've got a copy (which is as always not with me right now) so in case you can't get your hands on one and you don't mind waiting for a bit I could scan in those drawings and forward them to you.
let me know/

btw, what is your preferred scale for this project?

abufletcher

Trev, I'm still thinking about size. I'd like something a bit larger than my EIII but not huge. I don't think I'd go as large as 1/4 scale just to keep costs down (which seems to expand exponentially with size). It may come down to available accesories. I did buy two sets of WB wheels (5" and 4 3/4") when they were still available as well as a small collection of 1/6 scale machine gun kits so that might be the deciding factor. I did blow up the Wylam plans from the MAN book to 1/6 scale just to see that that looks like and on paper it looks large enough. But then so did the EIII.

I was also looking hard and planes with more traditional "stick and tissue" style construction but was amazed really at how quickly the construction progressed during the war. Even the early C-types already had ply-covered fusaleges. It seems like the next step after the straight forward box fuses were ones the the later Nieuports where there is a box to which formers and some ply are added to create a rounder shape. Besides I decided I'd like to "jump around a bit" instead of working my way linearly through the aircraft types. I'm interested to try to build the monocoque shell of the Pfalz using the strips of diagonaly ply technique described in diagrams. Plus, I'll get all the traditional building I'll need with the wings.

I do eventually want to do a DrI but it seems like everyone interested in German WWI fighters eventually has to do an Albatros I'd love to build the Proctor Albatros but financially that's a bit beyond me. Plus it somehow seems a shame to invest so much time and money in a plane that so many others have built. Still that's the build quality I'd like to shoot for on the Pfalz.

Also I think I was motivated by seeing some of the stunning Funaero Albatros DIII's being built by people on the Scale Forum. In fact, I've been thinking of doing one of these are a practice project for the more serious Pfalz build. I was talking to the people at Funaero on the phone but just stopped short of ordering -- since I have enough on my plate at the moment finish up my dissertation (semi-final draft due next week to supervisors and final submission in late March). Both Feuerwehr and Hot Rod Todd did an astounding job on their Funaero DIII's.

abufletcher

Here are the structural diagrams I've found so far for the wings and airfoil. These are for the DIII but show a lot of construction detail (such as placement of gussets) that should also apply to the DIII(a). Also I'll want to compare the airfoil with a couple other sources. I'm very tempted to have arrange to have someone laser cut a set of ribs for me. The thought of individually carving out each rib with all those lightening holes sends shivers up my spine!

abufletcher

Actually, all of these drawings from Flight magazine seem to be documenting the earlier DIII version with the buried machine guns but I would imagine that structurally the DIIIa was virtually identical. I might try does a mock built of a dummy fuse with the thin ply technique while I'm here in Japan -- if I can find a source for 1/64 (or its metric equivalent) ply here. I'd think about having 3 layers of 1/64 ply laid in crossing directions.

I might also start sketching out some actual plans instead of just building by the seat of my pants as I did on the EIII. For example, it might be nice to know from the very beginning where the firewall and radio gear are going to go! Think of this as a fesibility study! It is all looks too difficult I can always "fall back" on a Nieuport II - heck I've already got that great cowl!

abufletcher

Jim, I'm finding references to a set of plans for a 1/5 scale Pfalz by Tom Polopink but can't get any further. Does he have a website? I'm wonder how scale these plans are. I certainly have no objections to using someone elses plans (at least to the degree that they suit my project).

I'd love to any any photos of anyone's model of the Pfalz. Also has anyone ever attempted the wrapped ply covering technique? I suppose I could always just sheet the fuse traditionally and then simulate the look but I'd enjoy the challenge of trying something different -- and the knowledge that I'd building a miniature replica.

If I were a millionaire, I'd definitely be building full-size replicas and not just scale models.

abufletcher

On the topic of size, one advantage to a larger scale when doing WWI aircraft is to have a bit more freedom in placement of vital stuff like radio and fuel tanks. Although now that I've learned how to make my own brass tanks on the EIII project I'm tempted to be making my own custom tanks from now on, maybe even semi-scale ones in semi-scale locations. The density of "innards" in the first 3 inches of my 1/6 scale EIII's nose is just unbelievable -- and quite probably trouble prone.

BTW, what size engine would you imagine would be needed for, say, a 1/5 scale model? Given the shape of the Pfalz's nose, one of those RCV 90's would sure be sweet! I'll try to keep it light but I don't want to have to scrimp on scale detailing.

abufletcher

I thoght I remembered seeing a DIIIa kitted some place. I googled Pfalz plans and came up with this kit from Arizona Models designed by Tom Polopink himself. Can anyone comment on the quality of these plans before I plunk down any cash for a set of plans. At the price of the kit, I might be more tempted to have a go at one of the Proctor Albatros'.

http://www.arizonamodels.com/pfalz-d-3.html

For that matter has anyone built one of Tom's Albatros models? I'd imagine that they two designs are pretty similar.

abufletcher

Some pix of Tom Polapink's Pfalz (as well as his excellent scratch-built Albatos DIII).

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Polapink/CP/

Tmoth4

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I'm sure Tom Polapink's Pfalz is accurate because he's been competing with it at TopGun and Scalemasters. They're all nice and that 1/4 scale one looks like a great size. I think if the plans were drawn by him they would be good. Just don't get it in kit form from Arizona models![sm=thumbdown.gif]

I seem to recall hearing that Tom was involved in the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome.. Maybe you could get to him through their website.

Jim

BobH

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I don't think Tom is associated with Rhinebeck any longer. I think he belongs to the LARKS RC club ? You might try looking up their web site.

abufletcher

What is it that people don't like about the AZM kits. I've heard this mentioned several times on the forum. Is it choice of woods? Quality of hardware? What?

I'd still like to be building from scratch going as scale as possible on fuse and wing sctructures (not just scale outlines) but I'd sure would be nice to benefit from the wisdom of others in terms of ideas about where to place the hardware.

Tmoth4

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I bought a couple of their machine gun kits and they were terrible. Parts weren't right, instructions were useless, laser cutting was really bad, etc. Then I started reading the same comments about the kits. I would buy the plans from them though if they're drawn by Tom Polapink.

Jim

abufletcher

Does anyone have the apparently NEW Pfalz DIII Windsock Datafile (#107). I'm wondering how this is different than the old version (#7 I believe). If anyone has the new one already I'd be much obliged if you could provide a brief review here.

I'd also welcome any other Pfalz references.

I think I will order the Polapink plans in 1/6 size from AZM to use as a building reference. I made some 1/6 scale enlargements of the Wylam plans in the MAN book and looking at in on my wall it looks plenty big enough for me (and the space I have available). 1/4 scale is just too large. I might however consider going as large as 1/5 scale.

I'm thinking I might spend some of my time in Japan making up a set of templates to be used for the ribs and fuse formers. I might even cut some stuff out. I keep dreaming of making a set of metal rib templates that I could just lay on top of the wood (probably ply) and then just "remove" whatever doesn't belong. I can't imagine the process of cutting out all these ribs. It'd probaby take me a month or longer!

abufletcher

Hmmmmm....

Tmoth4

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For the ribs, if they're the same size, what I usually do is tack a half dozen or so pieces of balsa together with dots of Ca and then trace the rib onto it. Then you can cut several at one time. A Dremel jig saw or band saw is needed.

Jim

abufletcher

Ideally, I'd like to make the ribs out of thin ply as Trev has done on the EIII. He felt that the weight and strength worked out roughly the same and it was more scale. Also I don't think you could plan on cutting scale lighthening holes in a balsa rib.

Trev

Yep, that's what I did too. Used thin strips of double-sided tape instead of glue and stacked 5 or 6 layers thin ply with a rib pattern on the top. First cut out the lightening holes with a dremel (or equivalent) and then used a band saw for the actual rib outline.
Doing every single rib is simply too much work and you get consistent quality for the number of sheets you stack.
Just be wary that any errors you make will also be evident on all those ribs. It doesn't hurt to do a few practice pieces first.

I did try fashioning the E.III ribs out of balsa initally....but they were simply too weak with all the cutouts and easily came apart/ besides if you're going to 'model for god' might as well go for scale materials.